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Author Topic: Canadian Snipers  (Read 6875 times)
Harlton
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« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2015, 02:41:43 AM »

Hi There,
              Thanks for the info very interesting, I have the bits too build myself the one and only Ross I own, as it has a brilliant bore, but cut down stock, I can modify it to take either the B4 Winchester scope, or I have a goerz B3 which I could stick on it. I'd like to do it in away that does no further damage but looks the part. The same with the long lee. All that said I have a great interest in the early snipers. I hate the W&S sight, so even if I had one I wouldn't fit it, and I have to cut my top wood to fit the B4,I'd rather not.
    From what I've read there was a going trade in Rubber to the Germans, for optic's from them, according to research done by the sight europa, until cancelled by the Germans in 1916, due to too many of their own men getting shot in return, and cancelled the arrangement.
    I'll look up the Lt, again and get back to you, there was obviously a right mix of rifles being used, stuff coming in from captures,  big bore hunting rifles too, with scopes to nail their sniper plates, we were using a double plate by then with an air space between the two, thereby killing most of the inertia, in the gap. thanks for the response, info on these rifles is so hard to come by, one I have to consider is, I guess any scopes that would have been fitted would have followed british offset practise, some concoction of british mounting plate and german adjustable mounts, from what I understand. Thanks for any help, It's more a fantasy piece I'm building than historic, I guess, I intend to enjoy it while I can.
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280_Ross
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« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2015, 11:28:20 PM »

If your rifle has a cut down forend, but not barrel, it is a good candidate for either restoration or a W&S scope.  All the rifles with Winchester A5 or B4 scopes I have seen photos of had their barrels cut just behind the foresight.  I believe this was done to clear the foresight out of the scope's field of view.   I don't know why they wouldn't just knock the foresight block off the barrel and leave the length untouched, but maybe the barrel also interfered with the field of view.

On the W&S rifles, the sights don't interfere and so were left in situ.

 If the Germans exchanged anything, it must have been glass, or perhaps even finished or semi-finished lenses.  There simply aren't any scopes which can be shown to have come from Germany after 1914, nor any other optical devices I have seen, the possible exception of some "rabbit ear" binoculars which have UK markings, but closely resemble certain German types.  This was probably just a case of copying an available example in wartime, but there may be something to the story.

If your barrel is cut, go ahead and fit the A5 or B4, but buy the brochure on the A5 off eBay and follow the technical directions therein.

British authorities tended to be very by the book, so fitting scopes to rifles in France etc. doesn't seem to have been done the way the Canadians did.   The 8th Battalion CEF sent in a request in early 1915 to purchase their own scopes and waited for weeks, if not months, while the War Office tried to figure out what category to describe such a purchase under: it turned out they had no category for optical sights at that time.  The same with the .280 Ross: they sent in a request to be allowed to purchase and nothing more was heard, except eventually an officer turned up unannounced to make inquiries about the .280 .
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"In my opinion there is no such thing as a 'foolproof' firearm and therefore fools should leave them alone." C.C. Meredith referring to the Ross rifle.
Harlton
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« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2015, 01:44:09 AM »

Hi 280,
           Thanks for all your advice, I shall follow it as funds allow and luck seems to go with all these things, I missed a W&S at an action just a little while ago. In answer to one of your questions no my Barrel length isn't altered and that explains my perception of that picture that some rifle have a longer Barrel, thanks.
    Interesting stuff all the sniper going on's, seem's like it could be written up, to make a more modern Sharp's rifles type story, what with hot to trot females sending over quite a bit of money for those days, I'm just reading about it now.   It sounds like it all went on German made scopes, so far anyway.
     I'm slowly preparing a list of notes, from any and all sources I come across, from whatever I'm reading through, and will hopefully post it soon. The money bit seems to have gone to the Canadians, as mention is made of how much easier it was for them to adapt and change their rifles, and how a few ditched the side mounted scopes in favor of overhead. Also to show the Brass, after an incident in the trenches. I can't help but be amazed at the courage of these young lad's, as I turn the pages.

Regards Ian
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280_Ross
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« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2015, 11:16:13 PM »

I had a look at this article http://home.europa.com/~telscope/glass-ss.txt which states that optical glass was in fact imported from German sources throughout the war.  Presumably something was given in exchange, whether precious metals (ie: money) or some strategic material Germany wanted seems to be unknown now.



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"In my opinion there is no such thing as a 'foolproof' firearm and therefore fools should leave them alone." C.C. Meredith referring to the Ross rifle.
PaulBre
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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2015, 07:35:50 PM »

Thought I'd post this up as people may find it interesting.

I'm currently pursuing a replica of the WW1 Ross/Warner & Swazey combination.

Below is a hardened steel, fully machined replica of the mount base, devised from original machining drawings for the Ross mount.  An identical mount is currently being mounted to my Ross' receiver.

The scope in the photograph is an American type pattern 1913, not one of the Canadian contract scopes (I can always dream).  To this end it currently has a replacement range disk, ready to be engraved with the graduations as per the Canadian contract scopes.











I should hopefully have everything completed by the end of the month, along with a replica of the cut fore end stock.





Paul.
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flying pig
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« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2015, 09:17:17 PM »

Looking good Paul! Can't wait to see it finished up.
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john.k
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« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2015, 03:21:22 AM »

A bit off,but how do you pronounce Warner & Swasey correctly ?I have one in the back yard I m about to cut up for scrap[not a scope obviously],and have heard all sorts of pronunciations,but what is correct?Regards John.
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PaulBre
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« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2015, 08:10:31 AM »

Hi Brandon,

It's the culmination of over 1.5 years, so I'm pretty excited!  And as you know it's got one of your gorgeous stocks wrapped around it  Cheesy


John.  You've actually caught me out there (it was 3am as I'm currently doing shift work and my eyes were failing me).  It should be "Warner & Swasey".






Paul.
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280_Ross
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2015, 08:26:32 PM »

How tightly does your scope rail fit on the  base?  The bases have to be lapped to each scope dovetail IMHO.  Slop also develops on the sides of the lug that rides in the elevation cam.  That only matters if you intend to fire it course.
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"In my opinion there is no such thing as a 'foolproof' firearm and therefore fools should leave them alone." C.C. Meredith referring to the Ross rifle.
PaulBre
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« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2015, 06:49:25 PM »

Hi 280_Ross

Very tightly.  They have been machined so that each one is naturally oversize, this has been checked against my American P1913 W&S scope and a fellow collectors Canadian P1913 W&S scope, they need fettling to match their parent scopes dovetail.

The rear pads are also oversize in terms of height, so they can be machined to match their parent rifle and the front pad radius sits exactly onto the receiver ring for silver soldering before drilling/tapping.



I can imagine the lug wearing over time as you say.  The bracket spring does impart some force into the mechanism, allowing abrasion of the lug and probably the spiral track on the rear of the disk too.






Paul.
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PaulBre
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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2015, 04:10:20 PM »

I've finally been able to take some good photos of the project.  Still needs a few small details to be done with it, but extremely happy with the results thus far Grin















I must say a massive thank you to Brandon for making me one of his marvellous stocks and accommodating my request for one with a cut fore end in order to save the original stock.





Paul.
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280_Ross
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« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2015, 09:29:43 PM »

Well done, and I hope you're going to shoot it?  Just make sure you've got a very firm grip on it when you do.  There's not much room for error with the eye relief on the W&S scopes. Wink
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"In my opinion there is no such thing as a 'foolproof' firearm and therefore fools should leave them alone." C.C. Meredith referring to the Ross rifle.
flying pig
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« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2015, 07:44:25 PM »

Paul, that looks really good! You did an amazing job finishing that wood, I really like how you stained it.

The whole package is outstanding!
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john.k
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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2015, 02:28:28 AM »

I see that you are a fellow DP owner.If I squint a bit ,I can make out the outline of a plug in the LHS view.Out here there are many times more shootin' DPs than any other kind of Ross.Keep up the good work.Regards John.
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PaulBre
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« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2015, 05:39:39 PM »

Hi all,

Thanks for the kind comments, although I'm going to let you in on a horrible secret.  Sadly the rifle does not fire.  In the UK until I attain my FAC, this is the only way I can own such things.

It is indeed a DP. Ross rifles in any condition are a rarity in the UK, I must say it has to be one of my favourites for sure!

Brandon, I followed your recommendations matey, the wood you chose for the blank is absolutely brilliant and everything just fell into place.  Brilliant craftsmanship on your part I can't thank you enough, as really without your input the project would probably not have come to fruition!





Paul.
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