Ross Rifle Forum
June 20, 2018, 10:59:17 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: SMF - Just Installed!
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: 1905M Help Identifying Please  (Read 414 times)
Bluenoser
Newbie
*
Posts: 17


View Profile Email
« on: March 07, 2018, 07:42:33 PM »

This 1905 Ross just arrived in the mail and I could use a little help confirming it's identity.  The seller seemed to believe it is a sporterized Mk II.  I was and am of the opinion it is a 1905M factory-built sporting rifle.  I picked up my first Ross in the 1970's and have owned several since then.  However, my primary interest has, until recently, been in pre No. 1 Lee Enfields and Metfords.  I find myself leaning more toward the Ross these days, but have much to learn.  Any and all advice and guidance will be greatly appreciated.









The rifle in question has a 22" bbl with "303 Ross" stamped on the reinforce and there are no visible military markings anywhere on the rifle.  The front sight appears original to the rifle, but it differs from front sights on Mk II's I have owned and handled.  As can be seen in the picture, the muzzle is flat and well finished with no real crown.  The bbl mounted rear sight may or may not be original to the rifle.  It appears to me the V notch has been dressed off for some reason.  Opinions please.

There is what appears to be a poorly struck serial number (?04_X) on the forward slope of the reinforce.  I found the following numbers on the bolt:
A struck out 58 or 38 on the underside of the bolt body with a 33 adjacent to it.
A 33 and a 41 on the bolthead.
A 39 on the underside of the bolt handle root.


Last, but not least, it has a Lyman no 50 aperture sight in very good condition mounted to the receiver.


I would rate the rifle in overall very good condition.  The bore is  shiny and, although the seller rated the rifling as an 8 out of ten, I would rate it about a 6.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 08:14:09 PM by Bluenoser » Logged
Ax.303
Full Member
***
Posts: 105


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 09:08:39 PM »

Looks to be a 1905-R. The barrel sight would originally have been Winchester buckhorn.
Logged
Bluenoser
Newbie
*
Posts: 17


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2018, 07:22:56 AM »

Thanks for the reply.  I suspected the rear sight should be the same as that of the Winchester 94 of the period.  That sight would be in the way of the Lyman receiver sight, so it might have been removed when the Lyman sight was added, assuming the Lyman was added after it left the factory.  If the Lyman was a factory option, the bbl mounted rear sight, if any, would have to be a fold-down.  I think it more likely a blank would have been installed.

What are the identifiers that suggest it is a 1905R and what identifiers suggest it would not be a 1905M?  My only point of reference is The Ross Rifle Story, page 142.  Plate 69A, which shows a 1905M (third type) appears to be the closest match.  The 1905R (plate 70A) does not have the Harris magazine and the rear sight appears to be mounted on a band. I have researched examples of the 1905R on the internet and failed to find any with a Harris magazine.  I find the book to be somewhat lacking when it comes to characteristics of the various sporting models so I might very well be drawing incorrect conclusions.
Logged
Ax.303
Full Member
***
Posts: 105


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2018, 09:21:06 PM »

I see you saw my response on the Milsurps Forum. I am going to respond here as well in case anyone is interested.

I have owned quite a few of these and seen and handled a bunch more. Unlike the picture in the Ross Rifle Story, they all had the external Harris magazine levers, and dovetailed Winchester rear barrel sights. Period Ross catalogs show this exact same configuration.

The 1905-R was available with 22, 24, and 26 inch barrels.
Logged
Oldguncrank
Full Member
***
Posts: 181



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2018, 05:24:23 PM »

B/N
Saw that go by on CGN.
 
Take off the butt plate, and you will probably find the serial number as well, (probably in the 3-6000 range......do I see 4044) which should have the last 2 numbers stamped in the barrel grove.
All the other numbers are mating or batch numbers. BTW  the factory was very very cavalier about how, whether or where they stamped numbers in the early days.
If the Lyman was factory fitted there would be a shaped blanking plate so this is probably a gunsmith's addition (also the factory did not do that kind of inletting job.......)
Windage screw head on the L/50 is either MUCH later or a repair/replacement of some sort.
Have the identical R w/ factory Lyman. 26" barrel. Handiest rifle ever save for a 6lb MKI LE sporter (butt ring removed and full stocked in Cherry) made by my Dad for Mum.
Enjoy you rifle. It is a nice find.
Oldguncrank
Logged
Bluenoser
Newbie
*
Posts: 17


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2018, 06:21:28 PM »

Thanks for the reply and tips.  You have a good eye and did call it right on the S/N.  I don't recall ever seeing a commercial Ross with the S/N in this location or applied in such a haphazard manner.  I will remove the BP and take a look for the S/N.  Would never have thought to look there.  The jury is still out on the windage adjustment screw .  On a cursory look, everything seems to be in order.  I need to closely examine it and pictures of other Lyman 50s.  If it is ultimately determined to be a replacement, I will likely make a replacement knob or screw assembly - probably the latter so as to preserve the existing screw, just in case.... I am fortunate to be suitably equipped for that.  The slot in the screw head is not a coin slot, which suggests replacement to me.
Totally agree regarding the way the rifle carries and shoulders.  It is right up there with MLE cavalry carbine sporters I have carried.
Logged
Oldguncrank
Full Member
***
Posts: 181



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2018, 01:44:19 PM »

B/N
Have a couple stamped like that.
OGC
Logged
Bluenoser
Newbie
*
Posts: 17


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2018, 06:09:44 PM »

WELL ....... That was interesting!
Pulled the buttplate and, lo and behold, both the stock and buttplate are numbered - both with the same number but with a different number in the 422X range.  It appears to have been quite some time since the rifle was last disassembled and was hoping to avoid disassembling it.  It appears the logical next step will be to disassemble it to see if there is a serial number on the receiver below the stock line.
On close examination, it appears the windage screw on the Lyman sight is almost certainly a replacement.  I hope it is a common thread pitch.  Chasing down dies for uncommon pitches can be a real pain.
Logged
Ax.303
Full Member
***
Posts: 105


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2018, 09:00:46 PM »

The serial numbers under the butt-plate would be the correct serial number. The barrel was likely replaced with a Ross factory barrel, as it is marked with the proper .303 Ross and the P in a circle.

The original barrel serial number would have been in the normal place on the left, in front of the receiver, just above the stock line.

I also saw this go on CGN. Congratulations, I`d say you did alright.  
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 09:23:55 PM by Ax.303 » Logged
Bluenoser
Newbie
*
Posts: 17


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2018, 01:29:48 PM »

Took a look under the hood.
There was no serial number hidden under the wood.
The same "33" assembly number that is on the bolt is on the underside of the receiver and the bbl, so the bbl has not been replaced.
There are a large format "60" and "64" stamped on the right underside 45 degree flat of the receiver.
The set screw in the bottom of the receiver ring would lead me to believe the 1905R has the same coarse left-hand Acme style bbl thread as the Mk II**.  Correct?
As always, any and all input is appreciated.
Logged
Ax.303
Full Member
***
Posts: 105


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2018, 07:13:43 PM »

The 1905-R does have coarse left-hand threaded barrel, same as most other MK II Rosses. The Mk II** barrel however has the more conventional stye of thread.
Logged
Bluenoser
Newbie
*
Posts: 17


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 06:59:07 AM »

Thanks,
I had it reversed and stand corrected.

A bit of good news yesterday.
I slugged the bore and it turns out both the seller (8/10) and I (6/10) were incorrect - myself moreso than the seller.  The seller was likely trying to be somewhat conservative.  It appears to be a solid 10. Was reading the 1913 Ross Rifle Handbook after slugging the bore and found the specs for the Mk III bbl, bore dia. .3025" - .3035" and grooves .0042" deep.  That equates to a groove dia. of .3109" to .3119".  The groove dia. in this 1905 mikes at .311" and the groove depth mikes at .0045".
Sometimes, it feels really good to be wrong  Grin
Logged
Brno8x57
Newbie
*
Posts: 38


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 10:25:51 PM »

Nice rifle you picked up.  I too have a 1905R- very similar to yours but with the original buckhorn sights.  It is a true joy to carry in the field. 
I hope the link works- here is a post from Canadiangunnutz Hunting and sporting arms thread

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1692842-Ross-1905-Sporter
Logged
Bluenoser
Newbie
*
Posts: 17


View Profile Email
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2018, 09:34:09 AM »

Thanks for the link.
Logged
Oldguncrank
Full Member
***
Posts: 181



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2018, 05:18:57 PM »

Don"t be alarmed by different numbers on stock and barrel.
I have 4 or 5 Rs the same but with matching mating numbers.
Strange ways at Ross in the early days.
OGC
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!